Episode 134 (Season 4): Navigating Suicidality and Safety for Neurodivergent Minds
Nov 28, 2025
Show Notes
Content Warning: This episode talks about suicide and may be triggering. If you're in crisis or feeling unsafe, please reach out to a crisis line or local resources. We have provided some below.
Suicidal ideation and risk are common among neurodivergent people, and talking openly about suicidality is hard, especially in a society where honesty about these thoughts is often met with fear, stigma, or misunderstanding. Navigating life with suicidal ideation can be an isolating experience, but knowing you're not alone and having resources and strategies at hand can make a life-saving difference.
In this episode, Dr. Megan Anna Neff and Patrick Casale, two AuDHD mental health professionals, discuss suicidality in neurodivergent communities. They share personal stories, break down the spectrum from passive ideation to crisis, discuss the shortcomings of traditional mental health support systems, and offer practical tools for safety planning, reducing risk, and finding hope.
Top 3 reasons to listen to the entire episode:
- Gain a clear, relatable understanding of the difference between chronic and acute suicidal ideation, including the nuanced ways this shows up for neurodivergent people.
- Learn practical and accessible tools: how to create a personalized safety plan, what “means reduction” really involves, and how to identify red flags in yourself or loved ones, all explained with sensitivity and real-world insight.
- Find validation and connection from hearing honest, stigma-free conversations about suicidality from mental health professionals who genuinely get it, and discover resources, grounding strategies, and hope for weathering difficult moments.
If you or someone you care about has ever felt overwhelmed by thoughts of not wanting to exist, this episode offers education, real talk, and actionable strategies. Listen for life-affirming insight and ways to help yourself or others stay safe, seen, and supported.
Resources
- Free Workbook by Neurodivergent Insights: neurodivergentinsights.com/free/the-neurodivergent-adapted-safety-plan
- For a list of US and International Crises Lines (including non-carceral lines): neurodivergentinsights.com/neurodivergent-crises-support
- National Mental Health Hotline: 988lifeline.org
- International Association for Suicide Prevention: iasp.info/suicidalthoughts
- Crisis Call Center: hopeline-nc.org
- SeekHealing (North Carolina, USA): seekhealing.org
International
- U.K.: Samaritans 116 123
- Canada: 988 or Talk Suicide Canada (1-833-456-4566)
- Australia: Lifeline 13 11 14
*Non-Carceral Lines
Some crisis lines can lead to law enforcement involvement, which can put BIPOC and Trans people at risk. Here are non-carceral lines for BIPOC and Trans communities:
- Trans Lifeline Hotline: Call U.S. (877) 565-8860 or Canada (877) 330-6366
- BlackLine: Call 1 (800) 604-5841 or visit callblackline.com
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It's Patrick, one half of Divergent Conversations. Some of you may know that I own a group therapy practice in North Carolina, Resilient Mind Counseling. We specialize in supporting the Neurodivergent, LGBTQIA+, and Black, Brown, and Asian communities online and across North Carolina. We also have limited in-person openings at our offices in Asheville and Cary. We really love working with clients who are coming to terms with both Autism and ADHD discoveries later in life or questioning, as well as the intersections of race, gender, identity, and orientation. All of our therapists have lived experience and identify as AuDHD, Autistic, or ADHD. Our team of affirming therapists offers a safe, anti-racist, anti-oppressive, inclusive, and accessible space where you can show up exactly as you are—no masking, no judgment, and no need to make eye contact, just real connection and healing. We accept most commercial insurances like Blue Cross Blue Shield, United, Aetna, and Med Cost, as well as self-pay options. We currently have openings for new clients. Visit our website at resilientmindcounseling.com. You can also text or call our HIPAA-compliant phone line at (828) 515-1246, or email us at [email protected].
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Transcript
PATRICK CASALE: Hey, everyone. You are listening to the Divergent Conversations podcast. We are two neurodivergent mental health professionals in a neurotypical world. I'm Patrick Casale.
MEGAN NEFF: And I'm Dr. Neff.
PATRICK CASALE: And during these episodes, we do talk about sensitive subjects, mental health. And there are some conversations that can certainly feel a bit overwhelming. So, we do just want to use that disclosure and disclaimer before jumping in. And thanks for listening.
MEGAN NEFF: Hey, Dr. Neff here. Before we dive into this week's conversation, I wanted to let you know that the topic of this episode is suicidality. We'll be talking about both chronic and acute suicidal ideation, as well as the things that help us stay. We will also talk through some grounding strategies and safety supports.
We know conversations like this can intersect with our own stories in hard and painful ways. So, before you keep listening, I invite you to take a moment and check in with yourself. Notice what you have capacity for today, and what might help you feel supported if you do choose to listen.
If you're in crisis or feeling unsafe, please reach out to a crisis line or to local resources. We've linked several options in the show notes for you.
Hey, welcome back to another week of Divergent Conversations. As you may know or have caught on, Patrick and I are batch recording seasons now. So, we just wrapped up recording an episode on ADHD and laziness.
And towards the end, we got into some heavy content around existence, grief, desires to unalive oneself. And it felt a bit disjointed to leave that energy too quickly. And we also know this is an experience that many folks in our community relate to. So, we've decided to do a little bit of a pivot from this season's theme, and to do an episode on suicidality, suicidal ideation, safety. So, that's what we're going to dive into in this episode. We will talk about our own experiences. And then, we'll talk about, also, kind of ways to resource ourselves when we are experiencing that. So, this will be a heavy episode, I assume.
PATRICK CASALE: I would assume so.
MEGAN NEFF: Yeah, yeah.
PATRICK CASALE: So, this topic, I think, comes up often. And is almost viewed by a lot of people collectively as like a taboo topic, something we don't openly talk about for a lot of reasons. I think there's some perspective, if we talk about it openly then we're going to act on it. If I talk about it openly with someone I care about, I'm going to scare them into either panic or potential involvement with, like, a crisis response team or law enforcement, which is obviously quite concerning for those of us in the community who are members of the black, brown, Asian community, members of the trans community, etc.
And then, I think there's even the fear of, can I talk about this with friends openly, without them judging me? Can I talk about it with my mental health therapist without them immediately going into crisis response mode, potentially even pursuing involuntary commitment?
MEGAN NEFF: Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's a lot of fear and shame around this conversation. And it's a conversation that, when it's just locked inside of us, it can be very scary.
PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, yeah, yep. So, really the segue was that we were talking about ADHD, and the myth of laziness, and not being motivated, and true fashion, we pivoted and diverged into some heavier stuff, really talking about demands of life. And we were kind of joking about if we could trade our neurology and existence. And I think that that sometimes brings this immediate sensation or feeling of relief, of, “Man, wouldn't it be nice to go through the world not being so impacted by everything that that comes up?”
And although we wouldn't trade our neurology for the world, there is realness in that statement too, especially when we're struggling.
And I know for me, I was kind of talking about disappearing, that fantasy of disappearing. We kind of unpacked that a little bit. And I think I've had that fantasy since I was very young, six, seven years old. I remember just wanting to just not exist.
And it was never active suicidal ideation, but it was more so, this unknowing acknowledgement of like I am so overwhelmed and impacted all the time that it takes so much to just exist.
MEGAN NEFF: Yeah, yeah.
PATRICK CASALE: And that has not gotten easier in 39 years of life.
MEGAN NEFF: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I relate to that. I relate to that. And it's interesting, because I know it's something that you and I talk about off-air pretty comfortably. Like, because we talk about our mental health struggles with each other and how this ebbs and flows.
And it's also interesting. I don't know what your training was like, but in my training, there's a lot of training around how to do a suicide assessment and how to manage like acute suicidality and risk.
PATRICK CASALE: Right, yeah.
MEGAN NEFF: There's less training around, how do you work with a client who's chronically suicidal? And I think in the same ways in culture, there's less conversation around, how do you manage chronic, whether it's chronic, non-morbid ideation around just, "I'm so overwhelmed by my life." Or whether it is chronic suicidal ideation. How do we manage that? How do we live with that? And we know from the numbers that this is an experience that impacts our community at such significantly higher rates.
PATRICK CASALE: Yeah.
MEGAN NEFF: Especially, those who are moving through neuro normative spaces.
PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, yeah, for a variety of reasons. And I think you shared a study with me for my TEDx. It was like 41% of the people in this research study who died by suicide in England were autistic or had autistic traits.
MEGAN NEFF: Yeah, it's a really interesting sober study where what they did is they looked at the people who had died by suicide. I think it was like 9% or less had it in their record. But then what they did is they interviewed family members and, like, looked more closely at the medical record. And then, based on that, they came up with that number that they suspected 41% of the people were autistic. Many didn't know it.
PATRICK CASALE: [CROSSTALK 00:08:56]
MEGAN NEFF: And then, there's reality. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
PATRICK CASALE: So, you were asking about my training. It was like laughably bad, because, again, I don't see that many professors in these grad school programs like that comfortable of talking about the topic. It's almost like, “Okay, client a presents with A, B, and C. They're actively suicidal. Here's what you do to de-escalate, to safety plan, to crisis plan. Here's how to get client buy-in.” And then, how to get like collateral involved as well, and supports, and to ensure, like it was always like, “Do you have anything to look forward to if you were here tomorrow?” And I was like, this is-
MEGAN NEFF: It's just like motivational interviewing for suicidality.
PATRICK CASALE: Yeah. So, if you were here tomorrow, do you have anything to look forward to? Or do you have anything to look forward to in your life? Or would anyone miss you? And like questions like that. And you're almost like putting this guilt back on the client in that way. I think so often in mental health spaces, in Western culture, especially, we are trained to immediately go into crisis and safety planning when the word suicidal is mentioned. I think it's sometimes a CYA process of like, I just have to get this plan done to cover my ass in case this person actually acts on this. And that's really unfortunate.
I worked in a crisis unit that was a walk in 24-hour crisis unit. People could just walk in off the street in distress. And we had a lot of clients who were actively suicidal. But because we were better prepared in that unit than our outpatient counterparts, we were able to talk with these clients openly and allow them to build trust with us, to talk about passive or chronic suicidality without that shame, or that judgment, or that stigma.
And in turn, unfortunately, what I saw a lot of the time with our outpatient clinic was that the term or the word suicidal was mentioned, and they stopped the clinical assessment in its tracks, walked the client down to the crisis unit, and would hand them off to us and say, "This person's suicidal."
And I would get so angry by that, because I just thought, you just ruptured any rapport that was built, because this client is not going to die by suicide in your office while you're completing a comprehensive clinical assessment.
MEGAN NEFF: Yeah, you have to be able to talk about this in therapy. And then, especially if it's a chronic experience that ebbs and flows, you have to be able to talk about it and talk about it deeply, not in a trite way, because, yeah, of like, what does keep you here? What is the meaning? And also, being able to talk about the experience of when life just feels like too much.
PATRICK CASALE: Yeah.
MEGAN NEFF: Yeah, yeah.
PATRICK CASALE: And that's why, you know, I value our friendship and a couple of other friends of mine who we can have these conversations pretty candidly and really transparently. And we always use like, the caveat of like, I'm not thinking about doing anything. Or there's, you know-
MEGAN NEFF: And I mean, I think that's part of what keeps our conversations feeling grounded, is when we do talk about it, we also are always listing the things that keep us here, right?
PATRICK CASALE: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
MEGAN NEFF: So, like for me, yeah, and ideation, both kinds have ebbed and flowed throughout my life. Obviously, when I'm depressed, it is much worse. And I know without a doubt, like my kids keep me here. And it's a non-negotiable in the sense of, I know I could have some really dark thoughts and days, and yeah, I know that is not a risk for me to act on.
PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, yeah.
MEGAN NEFF: And being able to talk about the thoughts when they do come with people like you or my therapist, who also holds the balance of like understanding the things that keep me here, has been really important.
PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, same. You know I have a handful of friends who I can talk pretty openly about, yourself included, and another good friend that lives here in town. And we kind of have this exchange in that way of like, this is where I'm at, you know, this week or this day. And this is what I've been thinking about.
And I think we need to be able to openly talk about this stuff without that fear of like someone's immediately going to spring into action against my will or within my, you know, consent. Just being able to openly discuss it, it kind of, for me, allows me to just normalize the experience of like, I ebb and flow through this. I've ebb and flowed through this my entire life.
Dating back to childhood, I've never been to the stage of like intent. I've never moved into the stage of action. It's just always been ideation. And I acknowledge that as long as it can stay in ideation, and I can openly talk about it in a safe space with people that I trust, then the ideation just stays what it is. And it doesn't feel as overwhelming to me, because I just acknowledge it as like almost a baseline.
PATRICK CASALE: Do you think it would be helpful to talk through the gradient of risk? Do you think that'd be helpful information for folks?
PATRICK CASALE: Yeah.
MEGAN NEFF: Yeah, yeah. So, there is, like, a gradient of risk, which can kind of be, I think it's helpful because it's kind of a thermometer of like, okay, this is reaching… I mean, all of it scary, but where it's like, this is a point where, like, definitely seeking help and definitely talking to someone is, like, really important.
And so, like, you just mentioned a few, you mentioned ideation, and that can be that non-morbid, like hope I don't wake up. Or it can be, I can have a more suicidal nature. And then, there's intent and planning, which is where it's like, actually, this is something I'm moving toward. And like a person might start researching or thinking through different ways. And then, once we get to that place on the gradient, like a person should definitely be seeking help.
PATRICK CASALE: Yeah.
MEGAN NEFF: One thing that is common to see is when someone has made the decision, and if it's a plan, there can often be a spike of almost like euphoria or dopamine, partly because often the person's made that plan, because they're in so much pain that now they're anticipating like relief of that pain. But also, it's kind of like a existential BTFI, beyond the fuck it. And so, it's like there can be kind of a big bump of, if someone's been really depressed, like a bump of energy or positivity.
And like for the people around that person's life, that can often be kind of a signal of like that this person's in a really kind of dangerous spot with it.
PATRICK CASALE: Another signal or warning sign that someone has moved from ideation to intent and plan to act is saying goodbye to people, giving away possessions, gifting things to people. That can often be an indication that there's more significance here than ideation happening behind the scenes.
MEGAN NEFF: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Another, I think, red flag to pay attention to is like rehearsal behavior. If someone does have a plan and intent that it can be common to almost kind of have activities of rehearsing it, and that that gets really scary for a few reasons.
One, because it's kind of a preparation for, but also like that, kind of the neural pathways you're creating is especially if this happens after like a spiral, an emotional spiral, over time, what the body starts learning is like the exit ramp from this pain is either thinking about ideation, planning for it, or rehearsing it. And that's not a neural pathway that we want to be strengthening. And so, that is also one of the things we want to be watching out for.
But also, if we do have a neural pathway of, like, I get really emotionally dysregulated, or I have a sensory meltdown or shut down, and then I'm thinking and I'm planning, or I'm rehearsing, like, that's a time where we really want to try to intervene with that process and create an alternative. Like, that's where distraction techniques, distress tolerance, where you're creating a different neural pathway after you have an emotional or sensory meltdown, especially because one thing we know is that a lot of deaths by suicide happen in an impulsive moment, where, if that person could have just made it through that 15 minutes they could still be here.
PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, it's similar to, like, a SUDS assessment for substance use, like subjective units of distress, or significant units of distress. God, I can't ever think about the name. I'm trying to get through that 15-minute urge that comes over very intensely. It's like a wave when it comes crashing in and weathering the storm, so to speak. So, having some strategies and supports in place, people you can connect with and contact if that stuff is coming in intensely like that, usually that what we see is after 15 minutes of kind of weathering the storm, that kind of dissipates. And then, we're kind of back in a place of more rationally minded thinking, because what we don't want to be doing is acting in that impulsive place.
Similarly, again, going back to like addiction, that's why they so often coincide, unfortunately, addiction and death by suicide, but it is weathering that like 15-minute urge.
MEGAN NEFF: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm glad you mentioned that, yeah. So, when addiction is also in the mix, the risk goes way up, because we're much more impulsive when we're intoxicated.
PATRICK CASALE: Yeah.
MEGAN NEFF: Yeah. So, I know you and I have both, like, kind of eye rolled, you know, someone mentioned suicidal ideation and therapy, the therapist pulled out the safety plan. But when it's done that way, as a way of, like, we can't talk about this, it's like, but safety plans absolutely save lives. And that is why, is because many of the deaths that happen in that, like, intensity of that 15, 20 minutes.
And so, I think some of the biggest things, I would say the two biggest things, having a safety plan and one that's really accessible. And then, like reducing means. And so, by that, it means like reducing access to things that could be used in that 15 minutes period. Because when we're living with chronic suicidality, and especially if there's addiction in the mix, especially if you're prone to emotional, sensory meltdowns, which many of us are, it's like my present self needs to prepare for my future self, which might not have access to my prefrontal cortex, might not have access to kind of, yeah.
PATRICK CASALE: Yeah.
MEGAN NEFF: Yeah. yeah.
PATRICK CASALE: Well said. And I think that means removing things from the house, or locking them up, or having a trusted human being in your life take them. That could mean weaponry. That could mean like pills, that could mean anything, getting them out of easy-to-access locations, making sure that you do not have them within arm's length.
MEGAN NEFF: Because even, like, even having a pillbox, like, which, that's something we have in our house, is like a pillbox with a lock, and it's kept high. And so, for folks, even the process of, if I have to get on a chair to get out the box and to do the code, that gives me two to three minutes more, right? Where I have to think through that. Like, that's creating friction. And it's like, I have to think through it each step of the way.
So, things like pills. Like, a lot of us have pills in our house because we're complex. So, that would be an example of, like, reducing means or adding friction, or I know this is obnoxious for us, but it's like when it's really chronic suicidality, of like having shorter prescription. So, it's like you're only getting, like, two weeks at a time, versus and again, I know that's not very ADHD friendly, but yeah, reducing means is, I think, one of the most important things that we can do.
PATRICK CASALE: Yeah. And going back to the pillbox, if you have a lock on it, and you are living with someone, or you have a friend, or whoever's involved in the safety plan, and they have your consent to change your combination to that lock.
MEGAN NEFF: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, that's actually what we do, is we have, like, a weekly pill bottle. And we do those every week. And then, everything goes back up. Yeah, yeah.
And if you've got, gosh, this episode is so scary, but it's so like, important, if you've got teenagers in the home, like, these are also things like, we know suicidality is increasing among teens.
PATRICK CASALE: We also know among the trans population right now.
MEGAN NEFF: Yeah. And the BIPOC population.
PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, because of messaging, that's being-
MEGAN NEFF: Yeah, yeah.
PATRICK CASALE: …broadcast because of media. You know, I myself had a gambling addiction for 10 years of my life, and impulsivity was through the roof. So, I flirted with this more than I do now.
And also, just, you know, I think community is so important. I had a friend recently, and I know I have her permission to share this. I'm going to be vague about it, but she brought like, "Hey, I've been recently, like, having some significant suicidal ideation, no plan, no intent." But she brought it to a team or a group of colleagues, and they kind of just sat there like silently, like cricket-based silence. Like, "We don't know what to say." I think that happens a lot, you know.
So, having community, having support, is unbelievably crucial, and that means, like, building that into your safety plan of who can I connect with? Who can I reach out to? Who do I feel confident, and safe, and secure spending that time with and sharing these thoughts with.
MEGAN NEFF: And I think that part's so important of like, who can hold this because it brings up anxiety for humans, and so, like, understanding, like, who are the people that I can go to because it's worse to open up about it, like what your friend experienced and then have that cricket experience. And so, knowing, like, who are the people I can text or call.
And it might be a crisis line. And if that's like, I hope that most of you all have one person in your life that you can go to with this. And if you don't, that person becomes the crisis support person on the other line of that phone, and that's why they exist.
PATRICK CASALE: Absolutely.
MEGAN NEFF: Yeah, yeah. I wonder if we could, like, walk through the components of a safety plan. And actually, I've just decided that as we're recording this, like, I'll make a template so that people can have it. And I don't know how to link downloads in our show notes, but, oh, we have transcripts on our website. We'll link it there.
PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, yeah.
MEGAN NEFF: But yeah, that's like one of the first, well, I guess part of a safety plan is like knowing what your signs are. And again, this becomes really important when we have alexithymia and interception differences, because part of alexithymia is we often, because we're struggling to identify our emotions it's like, back to that SUDS thermometer, we don't necessarily know when we're… Like, we might be at like a two or a three, and then we don't register the emotion till we're at a 10:00. And at that point, so we can have a lot of emotional spikes, and at that point, emotions have become a lot harder to regulate.
And so, knowing what our tells are, that we're getting into a scary spot, that's important for all safety plans. But then, especially when you're autistic or ADHD, those tells might look a little bit different, because you might not emotionally be registering it. Maybe it's tracking your thoughts or your behavior. Like, more withdrawal or more, I would say, probably our thoughts. Like, that's what I track mostly, is my thoughts.
PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, yeah. So, tracking that behavior big part of a safety plan, having people who you can contact if you need some accountability measures. Building in, I am going to contact Megan Anna by tomorrow at 9:00 AM and I'm going to do it via text, I'm going to do it via phone call. Building in, how you're going to reach out to your supports. And also, building in, do your supports have permission to reach out to you, and how often will they be checking on you? Will they be checking on you twice a day? Will it be in person? Will it be over the phone, you know? Building in the very specific examples of how you are going to be linked to that community, to that support system. Who those people are going to be? What their contact information is? Do they have your consent to come and check on you?
MEGAN NEFF: Yeah.
PATRICK CASALE: Really important.
MEGAN NEFF: Yeah, yeah, that connection piece, like, because that's often the lifeline, and that's often the thing that keeps people alive, is those, when they do reach out to someone, and yeah.
PATRICK CASALE: And we need almost an aftercare plan as well, built in of, what am I going to do over the next couple of days? What am I going to do over the next week? What am I going to do over the next month to kind of strengthen this foundation that I'm building, and the safety plan? It doesn't mean I'm going to get back into therapy. Am I going to increase the frequency? Am I going to spend more time at community-based events, and meetings, and groups? Like, really getting very intentional and specific about that when you can think rationally about what those steps are.
MEGAN NEFF: Yeah. Part of what I hear, and I think this becomes really important, those questions foster curiosity. And again, this is why it's really important that we be able to talk openly about this with our therapists, is if we're experiencing this, something in our life is not working. Maybe it means that we are incredibly depressed, and maybe there's a medication change that would be helpful. Maybe it's structurally something in your life is not working. But it's can we be curious about why is this here, and like, what needs to happen in my life to support some shifts that make life a little bit more tolerable to want to be here.
PATRICK CASALE: Yep. And these do not have to be massive. They do not have be massive shifts. I encourage you all to start small, actually. So, it's thinking about what are the little things that can be changed that I do have control over, that I'd like to incorporate more or less of, or how can I do more of the thing that I want to do? Or how can I do less of the thing I don't want to do?
Hell, animals are a great support system for those be who don't have them, and enjoy them, and can have them, you know, because when we start to think about reasons to stick around, you know, I think that's important if you don't have children, if you aren't partnered or happy in that partnership. Like, there's got to be something to anchor into.
MEGAN NEFF: And I guess, that gets back to the safety plan, is also, like, I'm thinking a combination of things, kind of comfort and distress tolerance skills of especially if it's one of those, like, intense spikes, where we're having that kind of 15 minutes of intensity, having a list of things that are distracting, which could be pets, or pet videos and things that are that help us with distress tolerance. So, there's a lot of distress tolerance skills from DBT. Things that like change our physiology.
So, sometimes, you know, things like holding an ice cube, or there's a lot of things with like water temperature that we can do, but things that kind of help to get us out of that 10 a little bit.
PATRICK CASALE: Yeah.
MEGAN NEFF: And comfort, like stress tolerance, comfort. But then, I also heard you list like reasons to stay. So, having a section where we list out, like, these are the things that matter to me. These are the reasons I stay. Because, again, if we're in an intense 15 minutes, we're not going to have access to that. And so, being able to physically see that list that our past self has reminded us becomes an important part of that component as well.
PATRICK CASALE: I would almost like encourage all of you to create a Google Drive folder or some sort of doc that has links to videos that that cheer you up, or make you laugh, or feel connecting, or music, or photos, or future plans, or any of those things that you can just access as a one stop shop for a resource that's almost just like these are all the reasons that I'm going to stick around.
MEGAN NEFF: And you're probably familiar with this, but there's this idea of building a hope box, which is where you put like photos, or I actually really like scents, because scents bring me back really viscerally to positive memories. Or basically, you might also put some distress tolerance tools in there as well. But it's a box that reminds you what matters to you, reminds you why you're here. And so, it's called a hope box.
But I do feel like more and more as we move digitally, like creating a digital hope box, like, as you're describing that, I was like, "Oh, that'd be cool to have, like, a digital hope box where it links to videos that are distracting, or links to things that remind you why you're here." That that could also be a really neat… Neat doesn't feel like the right word. That could be a really helpful resource for folks.
And like, we know that that's something that helps, again, especially if we're living with chronic suicidality is because a lot of it's, again, when we have access to the part of us that is more grounded and knows why we're here, it's like we want to be able to send messages to the future self, whether that's a letter or a hope box that's digital or physical.
PATRICK CASALE: Absolutely. Yeah, yep, yeah. Again, heavy topic, necessary topic. I think we don't talk about this enough, so if you're listening and it resonates for you or for someone you care about, really hope that this helps you, even if it's just for today.
MEGAN NEFF: Where did your mind just go?
PATRICK CASALE: You know, I think this is a topic that's near and dear to my heart for a lot of reasons, so I've never shied away from talking about it. But I think, you know, just treading delicately here.
And, yeah, I just want to just emphasize everything that we've said and just trying to figure out what to anchor into, to stick around one extra day, get through that 15-minute window when that comes over you, acknowledging that these thoughts are really a part of existence for a lot of people. You're certainly not alone in them. And just want to name that.
MEGAN NEFF: Yeah, yeah, yeah. When we're in this level of like intensity. I just feel like it's hard to hold on to some truths of like, the reality that, yeah, I'm starting to lose my train of thought, but…
PATRICK CASALE: No, I like what you said. And just that acknowledgement, you know? That depressed mind tricks us and lies to us, convinces us of things that are completely irrational, amplifies things that we might have already been feeling to some degree. And just to remember that.
MEGAN NEFF: Yeah, yeah.
PATRICK CASALE: We will link some resources to this in the show notes for you all. And you know, we appreciate you listening to that episode and sticking with us for that. And you know, I don't have a good way to end this episode other than to just say that we want you to stick around, and it's important to just try as hard as you can to figure out what you can anchor into, even if it's just for today.
MEGAN NEFF: Yeah.
PATRICK CASALE: Again, sorry you all, but got to transition out, so check us out on the platforms and YouTube on Fridays. And we'll see you next week.
MEGAN NEFF: If anything in today's conversation stirs something up for you, you're certainly not alone in that experience. And please do reach out for support. Support is one of the things that helps us to be able to stay.
We've included warm lines, hotlines, and other support resources in the show notes. And the Neurodivergent Insights team and I have created a free, full-length workbook with resources. All of these resources are available on the Divergent Conversations episode page, which is linked to in the show notes.
Thank you for joining us for this important conversation. I know that personally, after I recorded this conversation, I had some ripple emotions that took me a while to get out of. And so, I can imagine for many of you listening, you might also have some ripple emotions after dipping into this content. So, please do resource yourself, support yourself, consider what sensory supports might be helpful for your system. This is an important conversation. And it can also stir up a lot for us. So, please do take care.
